Rule Addition Request

[Vosje_RuLLeZ]

Hi guys,
Lately you may have noticed that almost half of the community here plays on alternate accounts, instead of their main accounts. Most people just want to play under a different name while other people want to try to get better stats, neither is a problem. However, the problem starts when people start making alternate accounts (a.k.a. smurfs) to dodge their ban. People are usually getting banned for legit reasons like leaving, ruining, etc., so is it not natural to say that these people who play on a new account to avoid their ban should get banned too?


How do I propose to solve this (partially):

The solution really isn't hard: Just ban these people who are dodging their ban by playing on an alternate account.

However there may be some 'problems' you will face when doing this.
1. How do you know if the person who joined the game is the same person as the guy who got banned?
You cannot 100% know this. However, admins can judge whether you may be the same person or not. There are several things admins can look at when judging this:
- The new account has a similar name:
ex.: user called "altaccount" gets banned in a game. The admin in the next game knows this, and a user called "altaccount2" joins the game. The chance of those two accounts belonging to the same person is way too big to brush it aside like a coincidence, and as an admin you see this. The natural reaction would be to ban this person, and I agree.
Warning: If the user "altaccount" got banned 2 months ago, then the admin has to be very careful with his decision for banning the user "altaccount2", because it may not be the same person.

- The new account acts as the user who got banned but has a different name.
ex.: user called "altaccount" gets banned in a game. The admin is aware of this, and a user called "diggididoo" joins the next game. Based on the name you cannot ban the account. The next thing the user does is whine about the game, saying it was trash and his team was full of retards etc.. Furthermore the user whines to the admin about not using his powers that game to kick the retards. This is not enough to judge whether a user was banned the other game, but it gives you an impression which limits the ammount of people it could be. (in this example it could only be the users who whined in the game to the admin and had a bad time playing because most likely his team was playing shit.) In this example the choice of the admin gets limited to, let's say, 3 people. As an admin you cannot wildly guess which one it would be, you need more evidence. What you could do as admin is ask questions about what happened that game or who played shit that game. (They wouldn't say themselves unless he specifies it was him. Warning: the user shouldn't be aware of you finding out who he was.) Now it's again up to the admin whether he thinks it's sufficient to say he was the user who got banned the other game.

ex.: user called "altaccount" gets banned in a game. The admin is aware of this, and a user called "diggididoo" joins the next game. Based on the name you cannot ban the account. The next thing the user does is say nothing. As an admin you cannot find out if he was the user who got banned the other game, because why would you anyway. It is not the fault of the admin for not knowing it was an alt account, and it does not matter. Situations like these happen and cannot nor should not be dealt with.

ex. user called "altaccount" gets banned in a game. The admin is aware of this, and a user called "diggididoo" joins the next game. Based on the name you cannot ban the account. The next thing the user does is flaunt that he was the one who left or ruined the other game. This does not really happen often and if this rule change will happen this case will hardly happen again, but it could happen. The admin should ban the guy because it's obvious he was the one who got banned the other game. If this wasn't the case then the person had bad luck and no punishment should be dealt to the admin, because you shouldn't impersonate someone anyway. (This may be cause for discussion but it really isn't that big of a deal. Trying to find loopholes isn't going to improve the community anyway.)

WARNING: These examples all talk about the "next game". This may also be a game the day after, but do take into account that it will be damned unreliable to ban someone for being banned on another account the bigger the timegap is. Admins should only ban if they're completely (or almost completely) sure. And I mean from 90% to 100% sure, not the 50% kind of sure which some may apply.

In cases admins are not sure the account they think was banned: admins can always check whether a user is banned on not on discord or IRC!

2. What are you going to do if an admin is getting reported for his action.
- First of all, the staff of the community has methods to check whether the person who got banned, was the same person who joined with an alt account. If staff don't know these methods, then ask sn0w_bl4ck. I am not going to spoil them.
These methods may not be 100% reliable, but neither is banning someone for plugging. I can say that the methods have a big enough reliability to be used.

- Admins who are rightfully reported should be punished severely, since this is no minor matter because it may include uninvolved people. It's up to the higherups to decide on a sufficient punishment if this rule change were to happen. I would say not an instant demotion, but 2 warn or smthing, but then again it's not my decision.


Now to what this rule addition will actually solve:
- I believe less people will try to make an alt account, the recent the ban was.
- People will actually take getting banned more serious.
- People will tend to make an unban request sooner.*
*This means that unban requests have to be handled quickly as well, if unban requests are left alone too long then people will just make another alt account. (perhaps more unban request staff needed?) Anyway I dont really know how well unban requests are proceeding, but what I do know is that sometimes it takes more than 10 days for an unban request to be accepted/denied (which is too much).

As for how the rule should look like in my opinion: You may not join mymgn games with an alt account when you are banned on another account.

If you have any suggestions, or questions then ask them, here or private message.

This suggestion is not 100% perfect, but you will never reach a perfect solution. Keep this in mind!
I expect ON-TOPIC posts.

[velocity988]

Legit bans for those ruiners/leavers , h3rmit got the solution for hardware ban or as you may know it "range ban" but i dont know why he keeps it 2 accs banned = 24h ban on accs less than 25 games

[Pougiout]

Drink vodka play dotka

[PeachTree]

Doubt something like this will happen because too many smurfwhores who cry for being ruined in their main accs and then do the exact same thing that made them vhange accounts in the first place. Also if admins could have a ip checking command would be cool.

[Pro.GiaGia]

Drink vodka play dotka

ΛΟΛ

[Pougiout]

ΛΟΛ

Cyka

[BRonZe))]

I give solutions in past head admins must make for us second bot
Which it will let players 25games++or ++so ruiners must play 25or++ games after ban to join in second bot.This is the best idea cuz there is no ip ban also i told that ruinners will never stop ruiners like Zer2 with alt and others

[Pougiout]

I give solutions in past head admins must make for us second bot
Which it will let players 25games++or ++so ruiners must play 25or++ games after ban to join in second bot.This is the best idea cuz there is no ip ban also i told that ruinners will never stop ruiners like Zer2 with alt and others

Αυτο εχει ξαναγινει φιλε

[velocity988]

I give solutions in past head admins must make for us second bot
Which it will let players 25games++or ++so ruiners must play 25or++ games after ban to join in second bot.This is the best idea cuz there is no ip ban also i told that ruinners will never stop ruiners like Zer2 with alt and others

an kapoios edw mesa kanei ruin , autoi eiste esu stalavista paok_klaime slayer godlikeripper mr_moumiac_g.t) lenor pr0sexe ka8hmerina kai epaneilhmmena

[Pro.GiaGia]

Cyka

μην βριζεις

-τασος λειβαδιτης

[Vosje_RuLLeZ]

I give solutions in past head admins must make for us second bot
Which it will let players 25games++or ++so ruiners must play 25or++ games after ban to join in second bot.This is the best idea cuz there is no ip ban also i told that ruinners will never stop ruiners like Zer2 with alt and others

The playerbase is not big enough to make this work. I believe it has been tried before, or it was another community. In that try the bot with 25+ games never got full and people had to wait ridiculous times to play, so it got abandoned in the end.

[Call-me-Winner]

I was intensively thinking about a solution to this problem and I think I have one...

well the major problem is that people don't really care about reaching number one mmr and so on so they go with alt accounts all the time. What about if the communities of dota1 that are still alive create a common database for the mmr so that a competitive environment can grow up. Everyone will want to play with his main to reach the title of the best dota1 player

[Pougiout]

I was intensively thinking about a solution to this problem and I think I have one...

well the major problem is that people don't really care about reaching number one mmr and so on so they go with alt accounts all the time. What about if the communities of dota1 that are still alive create a common database for the mmr so that a competitive environment can grow up. Everyone will want to play with his main to reach the title of the best dota1 player

sorry alla asteio post

[Vosje_RuLLeZ]

Bump? Dunno if you considered looking at this, but a fair suggestion should not be ignored, unless you don't care???

[Sn0w_Bl4cK]

Bump? Dunno if you considered looking at this, but a fair suggestion should not be ignored, unless you don't care???

Every single suggestion which is properly documented and is logical is being considered on staff or head meetings.
As we've said we always appreciate your will to help and your suggestions!

[Vosje_RuLLeZ]

shit is still happening, either reject this or accept it, it's a big change but doing nothing certainly doesn't solve shit...
Imo this rule should be common sense but since it's not in the rules then it cannot be enforced...
If shit actually goes wrong with this rule (stupid admins) then you can always IP check the 2 accounts can you not? I mean, why hasn't this been considered yet, or if it has then why not agreed upon to add it.

[Toro_Roso.]

I give solutions in past head admins must make for us second bot
Which it will let players 25games++or ++so ruiners must play 25or++ games after ban to join in second bot.This is the best idea cuz there is no ip ban also i told that ruinners will never stop ruiners like Zer2 with alt and others

+1